The History of 8C+/V16 Part 2: 2004 – 2011(ish)

Welcome back dear reader, to our second installment of the history of V16.  Last time we took you through the consolidation of the V15 grade, setting the stage for someone boldly propose V16, and if the previous 3 “first of a grade” were any example, get beaten viciously by the downgrade stick.

Yep.  That’s exactly what happened.  I’m going to detail from the first V16 proposal, up until the end of 2010.  Some attentive readers may notice some sends missing from this list, and they can probably guess why as well – I promise they’ll appear in Part 3.

Mandatory Disclaimer: None of the grades represented here are my own. I’ve never climbed any of these problems, and therefore I have no ability to have an opinion, I am merely reporting (with links where I can) the opinions of others.  When I say something “was downgraded”, I just mean later ascentionists have suggested a lower number, and not that its some official judicial ruling from over here in my armchair.

Second Editor’s Note:  I have fixed the 8a.nu links, but you will need to sign into Vertical Life to view the ascents.


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Tonino ’78, 2004 – The first V16 I recall being offered up, in 2004 by Mauro Calibani. Calibani was no slouch, with a Boulder World Championship and multiple Arco wins, sending Dreamtime a month later, and founder of E9 (the company that makes those pants you like). It was at mostly overlooked, and was situated on private property – Mauro was in good with the owner, and made a point to offer his email address to potential suitors to help get them in. It did fit the mold of a new grade every 4 years however, but has since faded into obscurity (with a later ascent and eventually Mauro himself calling it V15).

Wheel of Life, 2004 – Perhaps the first serious contender for V16, Dai Koyamada took his boulder Sleepy Rave (V15) and tacked the furthest starting point, X-Treme Cool (V9), onto the very beginning.  Boom – V16. It’s 70 feet of roof pulling, that depending on who you are and whether you want to wear a kneebar pad, has had suggestions of V14, V15, 9a, and 9a+.  Its worth noting that since then, theres be a lot of downgrading, as noted by James Kassay:

Or maybe it was because back then all the sections were overgraded. After all, starting from the bottom of the WOL: Extreme Cool was V9 but is now given V8 (it’s actually no more than V7 if you are taller than a midget); Sleepy Hollow was V13 but is now V12; and Cave Rave was V14 and is now V13 (and some consider it easier still). While linking V8 into V12 into V13 is clearly still hard, it isn’t quite the same as linking V9 into V13 into V14.

Just do this. For 70+ feet.
Photo by Simon Li, used under Creative Commons


Memento, 2005 – A hard line proposed as a potential 8C+ by Bernd Zangrel, and featured in a film of the same name. Bernd certainly had the pedigree and describes the short punchy problem as hard to grade. His notion of it being hard to grade seems to be right, with repeaters settling the grade around soft 8B+.

Terremer, 2006 – Proposed by Fred himself when he linked Terre de Sienne (then considered V15) with Diaphenous Sea (V12), its been given a consensus V15 by later ascensionists (Robinson, Woods, Beall, and Parton).  At that point, Fred had climbed 10 V15s, and feeling this was harder, graded accordingly. Unfortunately, most of those boulders have since suffered a visit from the downgrade fairy, meaning he may have been measuring with a poor yardstick:

  • Entlinge – Now 8B8B+ consensus
  • Amandla – Now 8B+ consensus 
  • Le poinçonneur des lilas – One repeat, no comment on grade
  • Dipende – Settled around 8A+
  • Golden Shadow – Seems to have settled at 8B+
  • Terre de Sienne – Settled at 8B+ with an 8B suggestion
  • El techo de los tres B – Has settled somewhere around 8B
  • Monkey Wedding – Held 8C after many repeats
  • Black Eagle SD. – Holds broke, still 8C
  • New Base Line – See Part 1
  • Prometeus – No info I can find…
  • Dreamtime – See Part 1

I don’t think Fred was intentionally over-grading anything, just as more people became worthy to climb at that level, the ability to form a group consensus shifted some, but not all, grades.

Keizer Sauze, 2008 – Romain Desgranges sent this boulder in Chamonix, giving it the dreaded 8C/+ slash grade, but indicating that it might be a real deal 8C+. Unrepeated, on account of someone smashing the holds off in an act of vandalism.

Bokassa’s Fridge – Assassin, Monkey, and Man, 2009 – This Toni Lamprect first ascent is a bit of a strange one, in form (FA Video here).  Its a drop-off problem.  It’s on a bolted wall.  It’s an eliminate, climbing a face that makes up a dihedral, but eschewing the adjoining face. It took a full decade to see a repeat by Christof Rauch, who gave it a personal 8C.  Subsequent repeaters, including Tomas Lindinger, seem to agree (it was Tom’s first 8C even).

Just don’t touch the left wall or I am soooo calling dabs.
Photo credit Udo Neumann used under Creative Commons

The Game, 2010 – Daniel Woods proposed V16 for this as documented by Reel Rock 5. Carlo Travesi used a bit of new beta and offered a downgrade to V15, as he’d never climbed V15 and didn’t think he’d skip a grade (this is also what he did on Jade – Daniel proposed V15, Carlo suggested V14 on repeat as he’d never even done a V14 up til then). Daniel repeated with the new beta, and agreed, while noting that the new holds seem to have been the result of aggressive brushing.

Lucid Dreaming, 2010 – Also shown in Reel Rock 5, this was Paul’s offering to the V16 grade, a long known sit start into the rarely repeated Rastaman Vibration.  After a long bit of consideration and a lot of climbing other hard lines, Paul marked it down to V15-hard before it ever saw a repeat.

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So there you have it.  A set of eight proposed  V16s that for one reason or another didn’t stick. There were 5 years between the first V15 proposal and the ‘New Standard’. New grades are always tricky, but surely we’d get this thing figured out inside of a decade. Right?  Check out Part 3 to find out!

Justin Meserve started bouldering in earnest around 2004 and was confused how something as monumental as V16 warranted only a small blurb in the major American mags and an incredulous thread on rockclimbing.com